Bridging The Equality Gap: Managing Director at AtkinsRéalis, Martina Finn (member-only)

The engineering industry thrives on innovation and problem-solving, yet it continues to struggle with one persistent challenge—gender diversity. Women remain under-represented, particularly in leadership roles, leaving many aspiring female engineers wondering how to break through.

Today, we tackle this pressing issue head-on with insights from one of Ireland’s leading engineering voices. We uncover practical strategies for empowering more women into leadership, explore how inclusive teams drive better results, and reveal lessons from high-pressure projects like the London Olympics.

Our guest leads one of Ireland's most progressive engineering and design consultancies, and is a chartered engineer with a passion for change. It's a pleasure to welcome AtkinsRéalis Managing Director, Martina Finn.

THINGS WE SPOKE ABOUT

Meeting impossible deadlines on huge projects
Necessary disruptions to provide long-term infrastructure
Promoting diversity and inclusion in engineering
Embracing AI with correct policy implementation
Self-development and the power of reverse-mentoring

GUEST DETAILS
Martina Finn is Managing Director at AtkinsRéalis and a Chartered Engineer with over 20 years' experience in the construction industry. She has been with Atkins since 2001.

MORE INFORMATION

Looking for ways to explore or advance a career in the field of engineering? Visit Engineers Ireland to learn more about the many programs and resources on offer.

Engineers Journal AMPLIFIED is produced by DustPod.io for Engineers Ireland.

QUOTES

"With every major progression we do, there has to be some disruption and some sacrifice." - Martina Finn

"The percentage of women in engineering globally has fallen since 2020 from 15% to 13.7%." - Martina Finn

"The more diverse our workforce is, both culturally and in gender diversity, then the better solutions we can deliver for our clients and our communities." - Martina Finn

"For anybody entering a company, get into a mentorship programme." - Martina Finn

KEYWORDS
#Engineering #Diversity #Inclusion #Mentorship #CareerDevelopment #AI #ProjectManagement #Education #Gender

TRANSCRIPTION
For your convenience, we include an automated AI transcription.

Dusty Rhodes 00:00
Equality, diversity and inclusion is at the forefront of management minds more than ever. Yet, women are still under-represented in certain industry areas.

Martina Finn 00:09
Believe it or not, the percentage of women in engineering globally has fallen since 2020 from 15% to 13.7%

Dusty Rhodes 00:21
Hi there. My name is Dusty Rhodes, and welcome to AMPLIFIED the Engineers Journal podcast today, we meet a chartered engineer who is driving the way forward for women in engineering. We discuss how to empower more women to reach leadership positions, the role of mentorship in career growth, and how companies can foster truly diverse and inclusive teams. Our guest leads one of Ireland's most progressive engineering and design consultancies, and is passionate about driving real change. It's a pleasure to welcome AtkinsRéalis Managing Director, Martina Finn, Martina, how are you?

Martina Finn 00:52
Very good Dusty, thanks very much for having me on the podcast. Very delighted to be here.

Dusty Rhodes 00:59
An absolute pleasure to have you. Martina, Listen. Tell me. How did you get into this wonderful world of engineering in the first place,

Martina Finn 01:06
I happened to go to a careers evening in my school. It was in the mix school in Monaghan, and there was someone who was studying engineering in Dundalk Institute of Technology. And I spoke with him on the evening and decided, pardon me, I was doing technical graphics in school, and, you know, aptitude towards maths and technical graphics. So I applied to do civil engineering in Dundalk, and I did a certificate and diploma there, and then I went on to do my degree in Ulster University in Belfast. So something haven't I haven't I haven't regretted since, because it's given me a very, very varied and great, fantastic career to travel with. So no, it's been a fantastic career choice for me.

Dusty Rhodes 01:52
You also like to work to some incredible deadlines, and I love the fact where you know a client will go, well, I need to have this done by January 2035, or whatever it happens to be. But you've worked on two very notable projects where there was no shift in the deadlines, and one of them was the 100th anniversary of the 1916 rising, and you were involved in the military archives there. Can you tell me more about what you did?

Martina Finn 02:16
Yeah, so we were the Civil and Structural engineers on that project, and I was the lead engineer for a country Alice. And essentially it was building a new military archives, which was a sunken basement with a double storey height. But it had to be very sympathetic to link into an existing protected structure on the old cattle Brewer army barracks. So we had a number of challenges there, in terms of just getting with a particular height of building that we had to obtain, to have the, you know, heights of storage required for the archives, the type of building environment, but you also had to consider, then the neighboring properties, which were predominantly residential, and then, as I mentioned, to tie into the sympathetic protective structures, you Know, of the fantastic and the beautiful campus of the cattle Brewer barracks. Then in relation to the program, you know, we had to be finished for the 2016 commemoration celebration. So we literally had a nine month program to get that project built. And with a fantastic, you know, design team and lead architect, along with the contractors, we literally all did just a really collaborative approach to the project. And it was a real can do attitude across the board. And we got the project delivered, you know, on budget and on time, and it was opened by our president, Michael D Higgins, for the commemorations for 2016 and a fantastic project. If anybody gets the opportunity to go down, you can actually go in. There's a visitor's area in there. And if you have had, you know people in your family who are in the military before, it's a, I suppose, a central repository for Ireland, for all of the military archives. So beautiful place to visit if you get the opportunity.

Dusty Rhodes 03:59
So if I'm going down to visit, okay, what should I watch out for? That was a particular challenge for you, and how did you overcome it? Just those little insider thing to look out for.

Martina Finn 04:12
Probably one of the things you won't see, which was one of the biggest challenges, is they're literally part of the whole archives building. So the new part of the building is sunk into the ground, and it literally butts right up against the existing protected structure. Building, which has older buildings have either very shallow foundations or no foundations, so they're very, very thick walls, but literally with no foundation, so there's a lot of underpinning, which essentially is putting in concrete underpinning columns essentially along the existing structure to allow us then to dig down for this new basement structure as part of the military archives. The other thing, then, is with a lot of the. Again, sympathetic refurbishment to do to the existing protected structure a lot, and along with the architects, who are fantastic on the conservation side of things, you know, it's turned out to be a lovely job. Another

Dusty Rhodes 05:14
project that you're working on with a deadline that could just not be moved was the London Olympics. That must have been wildly exciting. What memories do you have of that?

Martina Finn 05:25
Oh, it was a fantastic project to be involved in. And, you know, at that time, we weren't still out of the recession here, yet we were probably starting to maybe see some green shoots. But the big thing for us was to, you know, pick up work where we could to keep our core teams going in Ireland. So essentially, it was keeping people in jobs, you know, over that period, and you know, because of projects like the London Olympics, we came out of it with a stronger portfolio, and also just with a greater rounded experience. That project in particular, we were looking after 1000s of temporary structures across the whole venues for the low cog committee, and right up until the deadline, like literally the night before the opening ceremony, we had people on the ground so we would do the design of the temporary works, and then we had people on the ground who were supervising The construction of them, and, you know, making sure it was all signed off and certified, literally, right up until, you know, the night before the opening ceremony, we got, you know, a fantastic commendation from low cog on the day of the opening ceremony. And it's a project across a country, Alice, we're very proud of. And you know, for myself and leading the Irish team, very, very proud to have been involved in it. And I said, we literally worked 24/7 together. So there was a lot of lot of bonding. And you know, the team did fantastically well on it.

Dusty Rhodes 06:55
And you were coming, as you say to the night before the London Olympics, are you the kind of person who's able to just sleep well and go, it'll be fine. I have everything under control. Do you feel the pressure is there and adrenaline rushing through your blood?

Martina Finn 07:12
I probably didn't appreciate the temporary structures on these type of events before the Olympics. And you're a little bit not nervous, but you just, I suppose, of a bit of apprehension. But no, no, I slept very well. Maybe some of the nights in the weeks beforehand, I didn't sleep so well, but I slept very well that night.

Dusty Rhodes 07:32
Well, listen, that was then. This is now. What kind of projects have you got in the pipeline at the moment that Atkins realized that are kind of lighting your fire, getting you excited. Are you kind of going, This is good?

Martina Finn 07:43
Yeah, we're very fortunate at the moment. You know, we've grown very well over the last number of years, and we're working with, you know, a number of key public and private sector clients in Ireland. I suppose some of the exciting projects we're working on is the Metrolink advanced Works Project, which essentially is the enabling works to allow the Metrolink being contracted. I mean, you know, we've been talking about Metrolink in Ireland for 20 years. Yeah, 20 years. And you know we're seeing it being realised now, you know we're involved in it. It is going to happen. It will be a fantastic project to link up, you know, we're the only city in Europe without a rail link to our airport. So it'll link up, you know, North City to Dublin Airport, to, you know, our rail lines as well, and run to South City. So a fantastic project to be involved in.

Dusty Rhodes 08:36
So where are we sitting with that project at the moment? Has the last 20 years of planning and rails and discussions and funding and not funding and all that, have all the kind of the problems been sorted, and now it's just kind of getting down to putting the preparation works in place and then doing the actual construction.

Martina Finn 08:53
I'll say it's been worked through at the moment, but it's worked through very proactively, because there still are processes to go through in relation to, you know, planning and so forth. What it is, it is underway and it will be realised.

Dusty Rhodes 09:07
Are you able to say, from an engineering point of view, what you, in your opinion, will be the biggest challenge in delivering that project?

Martina Finn 09:16
Gosh, I suppose you always have to consider everybody along that route and along the line. And, you know, nobody likes to see, I suppose, disruption in their backyard. But equally, it's such a critical infrastructure project, I think, collectively, and particularly for people in in within Dublin, but also outside of Dublin, it'll help with that connectivity, and it'll help, you know, ease maybe some of the pressures on on the streets and the greatly enhance the public transport within Dublin, and I say that connectivity to the airport, but also to the rail lines as well. But you know, with every major progression we do, there has to be some disruption. And some sacrifice. So unfortunately, at times, we all have to experience that, but it is important.

Dusty Rhodes 10:08
Let's move on to a topic that comes up quite regularly on the engineers Ireland amplified podcast, and that is equality, diversity and inclusion, which is at the forefront of our minds even more than ever, yet I can't believe in 2025 that women remain under-represented in engineering. What needs to change, in your opinion, to bring more women into the industry?

Martina Finn 10:31
It's something I am very passionate about. You know, obviously being a female engineer and passionate about engineering and it being a fantastic profession to be in, believe it or not, the percentage of women in engineering globally has fallen since 2020 from 15% to 13.7% in Ireland, we're probably maintaining in around the 14 to 15% but I suppose some of the initiatives that myself and my accent realised colleagues do would be, you know, mentoring, reverse mentoring, helping develop our current females in engineering, but a really, really big focus, and I know it is for engineers Ireland too, is the Steps program where we get The opportunity to go out to schools, and that's both at secondary level and primary school level. We've done initiatives where we invite in female students of 15 to 16 years old and teach them what engineering is, the type of career you can have just the varying types of engineering. So, you know, I'm a structural engineer by background, you have structural, civil, mechanical, electrical. Nowadays, you have sustainable initiatives and sustainable engineering that you can do, biomedical, telecoms engineering, power and renewables. There's just so much you can do. And what a diverse career. Again, as I mentioned, the great career to travel with, but there's so many misperceptions for young females on what engineering is, and I think particularly they feel probably either not confident to go into it, because it's a male-dominated industry, and also just very self-conscious. So we try and break down the barriers around that also. The other thing is, we try and make them understand that at any level. And this applies to, you know, young males and females, their entry levels into engineering, from apprenticeship courses through to level seven, you know, level eight, Level Nine, across the board. So at country, Allah started an apprenticeship program last year. And again, people think you need to have honors maths and, you know, honors technical graphics, English and different, different maybe a science subject, but the baseline for, for example, for an apprentice, for our level seven course, is ordinary level maths and ordinary level English. So it's trying to break down some of those barriers. And you know, I would always be keen to present. I live in Dublin, so you know, some of the schools in inner city Dublin, and I, myself, was very lucky to go to university. But some people think they won't get the opportunity to go to university because maybe of social barriers, or that they might not be able to afford it. But it is. There are entry levels at all different levels. You know, from school through apprenticeship programs. There are scholarships through, you know, we're doing a scholarship this year in UCD, and you know, across the board, there are different entry levels that students can uptake. And you know, particularly, to again, to encourage female students to come into engineering.

Dusty Rhodes 13:46
Do you think that engineering is made to sound too complicated? Because, as you said, people imagine that you need to have, you know, higher level English or mathematics or science subjects and stuff like that, which maybe you don't necessarily mean, should there be more emphasis put on what engineers build?

Martina Finn 14:09
I think one of the things, and even, you know, I've been into schools, probably a great age to get children at, and particularly, again, if we're looking at females, is that seven, seven years old, take nine. And when we go into schools at that age, you literally, engineering is literally in everything that we do, from your phone to the headphones we're wearing to the cosmetics, you know, the you know, kids were, you know, on their face to, you know, their nail version. It's people think of it as buildings and bridges and, you know, big roads projects, but it's in, you know, biomedical science. It's literally in every single thing. So particularly when I go into, say, the national schools, I would show them, you know, a picture of a normal street scene, and from the electricity poles. To somebody riding their bike down the street, to, you know, the woman pushing the buggy, to somebody you know, on their phone, the satellite TV. All of that is engineering. And you know, a lot of the, I suppose, a lot of the educational institutions now have a common level entry. And after year one, you can do, you know, a diverse range of courses from that base here. So it's just try and break down those barriers and get a greater understanding of exactly what engineering is. And again, to show it isn't a scary world to go into. You have to be robust as in anything. But you know it is, again, a great career to go into, and particularly for females.

Dusty Rhodes 15:39
And when you're talking to those kids, I mean, they know very little, really, between seven and nine, but what's the reaction when, when, when they're listening to you? Or they kind of go, Yeah, that sounds cool.

Martina Finn 15:51
Oh no, they love it. Absolutely love it. One of the things we do is, and it's, it literally applies to what we do. We bring in a little exercise. So roll sheets of paper with some tape and a book. So if they have a book, we say, right, who can use the least amount of sheets of paper and tape? So you give them a little length each to you know, support this book. And for that age, some of the ideas they come up with just and it really opens their minds, it's just fantastic. And again, you know, you come in with your hard hat and hive is best, and let them try it on. They just get great interaction, great excitement. And you know, I'm really passionate about it in some of the schools, you know, and particularly in around Dublin, some of these kids, you hope they'll even stay on in school. But if they can get the opportunity to go to university or to go to do an apprenticeship or just do another step, you know, in their education, it'll make such a difference in society as a whole, and you get such great satisfaction back from encouraging these children in their education.

Dusty Rhodes 17:01
Martina, you're a very well placed person in this area, because you're very passionate leader of a very large organisation. Tell me about AtkinsRéalis and how you're approaching diversity and equality and inclusion within your own company. Listen

Martina Finn 17:18
dusty, particularly at senior levels across the board. It's a challenge because, you know, when I was coming out of when I graduated from University of Ulster, I was the only one in my year who graduated at the time, and you know, that probably has improved a bit. We're very fortunate in that at the moment, in AtkinsRéalis, we're really targeting, you know, the early careers and mid careers level. And a part of that diversity is attraction of, I suppose, candidates from abroad. So we have a lot of staff from, you know, from Europe, from things like Albania, Portugal. We've a huge South African and South American contingent. And within that, then we've got, I suppose, a large number of female engineers. And I suppose the great thing it helps, both from a cultural point of view and a diversity point of view, is the more that we have that in place. It broadens all of our thinking. It brings more innovation and creativity to you know, engineering is about solving problems for our clients, and you know, for us, delivering our purpose as a country, which is engineering a better future for our planet and its people. And you know, the more diverse our workforce is, both culturally and in terms of, you know, gender diversity, then the better you know solutions, and the better we can deliver for our clients and our communities.

Dusty Rhodes 18:49
As you're working your way through your career and kind of going up things, most things change because you go from solving problems on specific projects. Do you find now that you're solving problems with people and organising, and

Martina Finn 19:05
it's a mixture across the board, yeah. So a lot. I mean, we've got in around 400 people in Southern Ireland. There's another 200 plus in Northern Ireland. The big, big thing for us is, you know, delivering for our clients. What who is delivering for our clients, it's our people. It's our people using technology to deliver. So we have to our people are our biggest asset, and we have to look after our people, and we have to look after the development of our people, and again, the Edna and the more diverse we are, and if we help everybody to come to work being their true self, their authentic self, then it helps with attrition. You know, it makes a great work environment, and it ultimately then delivers the best we can to our clients and keeps our people, you know, happy in their work and getting work satisfaction.

Dusty Rhodes 20:00
Martina, can I ask you to pull out your crystal ball? And I love looking into the future, because there's no right answer. But how do you see it from you, from your position, how do you think engineering is going to evolve over, say, the next decade or so.

Martina Finn 20:16
We definitely will be using, we're already using a lot of digital technology, we need to embrace AI but in the right way. So we do need, you know, a lot of policy in place for that. It's common, whether we like it or not, so we need to utilize it in the right way.

Dusty Rhodes 20:33
And what do you mean by that? I mean, can you give me an example of the wrong way to use it and the right way to use it?

Martina Finn 20:40
We have an AI policy in place within AtkinsRéalis, so there are certain, there's one, I'll not name it, there's one AI program that we use. Others are not allowed to be used in the workplace. But there would be also strict controls around the utilization of that as well. You've probably seen AI generated videos and so forth. So in one of our we do a safety moment at the start of all of our meetings based around our values. So safety, integrity, innovation, collaboration and excellence. So we'd always do one around that, and one recently was our global CEO, and it was an AI generated version of him, and it was him presenting it. And he then told us that this is not him, you know, delivering a message. So it's, it's to look out for those type of things and to have those controls it's going to apply to, you know, all companies across the board. And I think maybe it's still so new to us all, a lot of that maybe policing it still isn't there.

Dusty Rhodes 21:47
I was going to say, how do you form a policy and something that is that new?

Martina Finn 21:51
Yeah, well, within our own intranet, there would be literally strict things. So those are huge it, and data protection teams behind this. So there are the, you know, the internal controls in place. And again, staff can't just upload any program to their their laptops or their work equipment. It's all controlled, so that kind of stuff.

Dusty Rhodes 22:14
Yeah, a lot of people, when they think about AI, and they get very scared, and they kind of think like, you know, oh my God, in 10 years time, or five years time, or whatever, an AI is going to be doing my job. Where do you think AI, I mean, and I'm talking like, think of an Arnold Schwarzenegger sci fi movie kind of a thing. AI in engineering, what do you think the possibilities are?

Martina Finn 22:36
I suppose. Listen, we've had, and I'm a structural engineer, as I mentioned earlier my background. It doesn't matter what software you play. So I'll take AI as another software if you don't understand the fundamentals of what you should be designing and getting out on the other side of it. So anything AI generated needs to be validated, and all of the references behind it need to be checked. So it's the check and processes and review processes that need to be in place. So it has a place, but it has a place with all the checks and reviews and anything we do in engineering, you know, you would have a manual so as a structural engineer, you would do a manual check, and then you would do, you know, a software which will give you a more efficient outcome, but at least you have a good idea of what you're expecting on the back end of it. And for young engineers, and particularly, you know, early careers, it would be something as I'm developing them through, you know, less so now more in a mentoring role, that I would always insist do that by hand, manually, and then do it in your software. You have to understand what you're going to get out on the back end or there, there. But we listen, we have different rules of thumb, etc. But if you don't understand what you're expecting out, and then that's building on your experience and so forth.

Dusty Rhodes 23:58
So, really kind of AI is, a lot of people say that AI will not take over your job, but somebody using AI will, which I think is a great little summary for people who are listening, kind of at the moment, getting into engineering, or early in their engineering career. What kind of skills do you think that they're going to need to thrive?

Martina Finn 24:20
I suppose, again, for anybody in their career having a development path. So I would always say, Have you got a mentor for anybody entering a company? Get into a mentorship program. Talk to your mentor about your development. And it's not just your career development, it's your technical development, but also personal development. So we would do, you know, by yearly reviews with our people, and then there's a development plan that's checked each year. And basically, you know, you will get out of it as much as you put into it, with the support of know, your team. So definitely have a development plan and to get it. Get involved. The more you get. Get involved in engineers Ireland, or the ACA, or your chosen, you know, professional institution. Be involved internally, but also be involved externally. So again, a brilliant example is, you know, steps, we go out and visit the school. There's lists of schools on the engineers Ireland website who would love somebody to visit them. And it's really get involved because, you know, it's fine. It's fine someone like me talking. But I think young people really love hearing from young people, particularly earlier in the careers, and it's good to get that balance across, and at least then the students can see how, you know the career evolves.

Dusty Rhodes 25:46
You mentioned that about getting involved with a mentor or mentorship program. Did you ever have a mentor yourself?

Martina Finn 25:53
Yes, no, I've had, I've had a mentor coming up through I currently have a mentor within a country, Alice, someone at a very senior level. And it's it's bits, fantastic experience. The other thing we have done in the last couple of years is reverse mentoring. So last year, I was mentored by a colleague, reverse mentored by a colleague from South Africa. What does that mean? So essentially, it's someone senior in the organisation been mentored by someone more junior in the organization. How do you take that? It's it's so rewarding, because you learn so much from them, just even, you know, I learned, I suppose, culturally, but you can learn what's on their mind. So then it helps, from a senior leadership point of view, for us to make better decisions, more informed decisions for the whole company. So it is, it's very interesting. And it's, it's, it's a great program. I have a new reverse mentor now this year, which is, you know, a young female within our organisation. I know I'm really looking forward to, we're actually starting our first session next week, but it's a very rewarding one. And I will encourage you know, all of our seniors to be involved, and it gives, you know, our early careers or mid levels engineers, exposure, again, to maybe some people that might meet within the organisation too. You know, we work in different disciplines and sectors, and so we'll give them an opportunity to understand maybe another sector as well.

Dusty Rhodes 27:23
I think it's interesting with the viewpoints, because you're talking about, I mean, we were talking about the difference mix of people and experiences and cultures and the whole thing when you get that together, but then reverse mentoring, I suppose, is you're learning from somebody younger, and somebody younger is also learning from you.

Martina Finn 27:41
Yeah, yeah. Absolutely.

Dusty Rhodes 27:43
Nice. Okay, well, listen, let's leave it there. If you'd like to find out more about Martina and some of the topics that we spoke about today, you'll find notes and link details in the description area of this podcast. But for now, Martina Finn, Executive Director of AtkinsRéalis, thank you. Thanks very much, Dusty. If you enjoyed our podcast today, please do share with a friend in the business. Just tell them to search for Engineers Ireland AMPLIFIED in their podcast player. The podcast is produced by dustpod.io for Engineers Ireland. For advanced episodes and more information on career development opportunities there are libraries of information on our website at engineersireland.ie. Until next time from myself, Dusty Rhodes. Thank you for listening.