Louise on Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/louise-o-flanagan-3a12ba3a/
EirGrid Website - https://www.eirgrid.ie/ 

MORE INFORMATION
Looking for ways to explore or advance a career in the field of engineering? Visit Engineers Ireland to learn more about the many programs and resources on offer. https://www.engineersireland.ie/  

Engineers Journal AMPLIFIED is produced by DustPod.io for Engineers Ireland.

QUOTES
"Leadership is one part of project management. Leadership is about getting people to buy into what you want to deliver and to want to help and assist you in that."

"There is definitely a shortage of female engineers in Ireland. 23% of engineers coming out of university are female and that drops to about 12% actually entering into the workforce. EirGrid have a very active graduate program where you'd see 50% of our graduates are female."

"As an engineer, you can have the most perfect plan on paper. But unless you actually meaningfully engage with your stakeholders, that may be where that plan will stay. On paper."

"It's what a lot of engineers’ face when they're delivering infrastructure projects. First, you need to explain what the need of the project is, but then also listen and take on board that feedback. You must engage with the community."

KEYWORDS

#engineering #renewable #grid #womeninengineering #eirgrid

TRANSCRIPTION

For your convenience, we include an automated AI transcription

Dusty Rhodes  0:00 
Right now on Amplified, lessons learned from an engineer leading the charge for renewable energy in Ireland.

Louise O'Flanagan  0:05 
You know, as an engineer, you can have the most perfect plan on paper, but unless you actually meaningfully engage with your stakeholders, that's maybe where that plan will stay. On paper. It's one lesson that I took away and I've learnt a lot from that experience.

Dusty Rhodes  0:21 
Hi there. My name is Dusty Rhodes, and welcome to Amplified, the Engineers Journal podcast.
Energy demands are skyrocketing and the system needs upgrading. But how are we ensuring a reliable electricity supply and embracing renewable resources today, we're joined by a principal engineer who will share EirGrids ambitious plans to transform the power system and accommodate 80% renewable energy by 2030. She'll also fill us in on the vital role of engineers in this transformation, the complexities of integrating renewable energy and overcoming regulatory hurdles. It’s a pleasure to welcome a Fellow of Engineers Ireland and a leader with two decades of experience in this field, where today she is Head of Engineering at EirGrid, Louis O’Flanagan. You're very welcome.

Louise O'Flanagan  1:09 
Hi, Dusty. How are you really nice to talk to you.

Dusty Rhodes  1:15 
Let me start off with asking about the role of Head of Engineering, for those who may not be familiar with it, what is the Head of Engineering in EirGrid? What does it entail?

Louise O'Flanagan  1:27 
So my role is, I'm within our infrastructure department, and my main focus is providing engineering teams to oversee the delivery of grid infrastructure. And that kind of encompasses setting the standards, the specifications that infrastructure needs to be built to so it can be part, become part of the grid. We've teams of engineers that go out to site or review designs to make sure they're adhering to those standards. And I also have a team that look after asset management. And so that's the grid that's already built. How are we maintaining that is the coming to end of life? Do we need to replace it and refurbish it? So really take care of the grid that we already have, and the teams that we have look after both the grid that's onshore and what will be the new grid that's going to be built offshore to facilitate offshore wind.

Dusty Rhodes  2:10 
One of the things I hear about the grid is problems with getting new renewable energy sources onto the grid in the first place, and because you literally have to make Hey, while the sun shines, what do you do when you have a surplus? How do you how do you store that electricity? What's the thinking on that problem?

Louise O'Flanagan  2:27 
So there's a few things that we can do to support that. So one is, we want to make sure that we have a balance of what's called thermal or conventional generation on the grid. That's kind of the base that we have there, and then we'll have renewables that will be supplying at other times. But you're right, sometimes we are going to have surplus renewables on the grid, and what we want to do there is we want to interconnect to other countries, to other grids, and be able to export that energy when we have a surplus in Ireland. And obviously, the converse of that is when we don't have sufficient renewables being generated on our grid here, we can import we also are looking at, you know, other technologies, such as batteries that can store some of that energy now that still has to go to such a large scale that we would that we can depend on it solely for that purpose. So we'll still remain to be a mix. And there's also other things that need to be brought in as well. So it's not just a case that we can say, once we do all those things, that's it, when we walk away, we need to be able to support the grid as well and make it stable. So there's technologies such as synchronous condensers that need to be built onto the grid as well. And so it's air grid's job to make sure that we have a balance of generation to meet demand. We don't actually generate anything ourselves, but just to make sure that we're planning and developing that grid to accommodate it and then to operate it so that it does remain secure.

Dusty Rhodes  3:41 
So with your engineers hat on and your genius problem solving, when you look at the storage of electricity, what is it that are you actually working on anything at the moment? What are the ideas being floated around?

Louise O'Flanagan  3:55 
In 2021 we launched our roadmap called shaping our electricity future, and that set out how we were going to achieve a grid that was capable at that point, 70% renewables, and now we're looking at 80% renewables, and that's bringing on about 17 gigawatts of renewables in the next 10 years onto the grid that's going to be a mix of wind, of solar, of offshore wind, of battery storage to be able to support that and and it's not just about building new grid to do that, it's about using the existing grid that we have already. And you mentioned some of that grid is quite old, and it is so it's going to be a combination of where we can use our existing grid, make it work harder, make it work smarter. Is it capable of carrying more and deploying new technology to try and do that? Make it work differently, to try and also then incorporate technology to make the grid operate in different ways. So we have a number of initiatives such as dynamic line ratings. So that's looking how, say an overhead line is operating in real time, as opposed to assuming a certain value of what the capacity is of the line. We have other technologies, such as power flow controllers that will actually make the. Power flow through different circuits, through different routes on the grid, to try and reduce some of the, you know, the constraints that we have, or the congestion that we have on the grid. So it's not just one single thing that will make us achieve that. It's a series of different steps that, in combination, will help us to get to those targets that have been set. We'll also need to build new grid that is also there. That's a need that we have. So we need to build more transmission lines, more substations, as we realize that growth over the next 10 years as well. So it's not just a combination bringing on renewables. We're also seeing growth in demand on the island, and we have new interconnectors that are going to be built over to France. EirGrid is progressing, which should be energized in 2026 that's the Celtic interconnector project, and we'll have another one to the UK. That's a green link project. So there's a lot happening on the grid right now. And in fact, if I look at just even Dublin, which is where I live, we have a initiative called the pairing up Dublin scheme, and that is essentially replacing older cables on our grid. They're about 40 to 50 or 60 years old, those cables, so they've come to end of life, and they need to be replaced. But there's an added benefit that the cables that we now replace them with, well, they're going to be newer technology. They're going to be higher capacity, and it means that we can have that added benefit of not just replacing the old cables, but the new cables that come in are going to help us reach that demand growth in Dublin and also help us move renewable energy around the grid. So the renewable energy that's going to come, say from the west of Ireland, and indeed, the offshore wind that's off the east coast of Ireland as well. So it's a really great way of trying to make the grid work in different ways and make most of it, and that's where our network planners come into that picture and try and set out how that roadmap will be developed.

Dusty Rhodes  6:39 
And because, I mean, what I hear is that, you know, the air grid, the whole grid needs, it's been there for 100 years, and we need to put a new one in, all right, that now, that's my uneducated view of what I'm hearing. And you mentioned about certain parts of the grid reaching end of life, which, of course, it does, yeah, roughly, if you were to throw a percentage on it, all right? And I'll say that. I'm not going to quote you on this, because I can ask for statistics. But do you think like we're at a stage where half of the grid needs to be replaced, or a quarter of it needs to or all of it needs to be replaced? No,

Louise O'Flanagan  7:13 
It's nothing like that. I mean, what we have is we've had different stages of building the grid depending on what was needed. You know, we would have had large generation plans, say, built in the 80s or the 90s. And then, you know, when we had 2020 targets, we had a significant amount of grid built again to accommodate that, to get to 40% renewables. There's been a huge amount of investment on the grid. This is just an increased step change, and we're going to be investing billions of euros in developing new grid. I mean, at the moment, we probably have in the region of 200 substations, and there's about 7500 kilometers of circuit. And we estimate that within the next 10 years, we're probably going to see an increase of that number by about 30% of new assets onto the grid. So it's quite a considerable increase. And as I said, where we have, maybe some of the circuits that are older and that we want to replace them, we're going to replace that with newer technology so we can make the most of the grid that we already have.

Dusty Rhodes  8:09 
How do you approach that problem, then, of asset management and innovation? Because firstly, you're you're looking at what's there, what you might need, and then you're looking at what you have now. And I mean, it's terrific looking at new technology, but not all of it is going to be here in 10 years time. Do you know what I mean? Something else would have come along to replace it. So when you're when you're thinking about asset management and innovation, what is the little checklist of things that you do off in your head?

Louise O'Flanagan  8:36 
Well, for me, it goes right back to the start of what is our obligation? It's a license obligation, statutory application, safe, secure, reliable transmission system. And when you're making that investment decision, and when you're making decisions about replacing existing assets, that's what I would have in the back of my mind. Is what we're doing like, are we achieving those objectives right now, or do we need something new to do that? And will it do that in 10 years time? Will it be able to do it in 20 or 30 or 40 years time? And that's the horizon that you're looking at. Like we need to build grid to last, because it takes quite a long time to deliver like by the time we go through planning, what's needed then actually engaging with our stakeholders, with communities, with landowners, and delivering that infrastructure, going into planning process, and then we work very closely with ESB networks for the delivery side of it. It can take quite a number of years to deliver on that infrastructure. So we want to make sure that what we're deciding on is built to last for decades, and it is that kind of future generations that we're thinking of and when we have that purpose in mind.

Dusty Rhodes  9:40 
So then, when you were thinking about what you have to do, say 2025, next year. Okay, what's your own biggest personal challenges you're thinking about for next year? You go, Oh, God, I have to sort this.

Louise O'Flanagan  9:54 
What is immediately ahead of me in the short term is about some of the newer projects that we. Want to deliver over, say, in the West of Ireland, so the North conic projects and we have deployment of new technology onto the grid. But also we'll be looking at what are those, say, circuits or substations that now need to be revisited and see if they're operating correctly or if they come to end of life. So it'll start to look at what that portfolio for the future brings, and also the accommodation of offshore wind. Because, you know, the target is to get five gigawatts of offshore wind connected by 2030 and so that is a very short timeframe in which we need to get all of these projects moving. The first round of them are going to be delivered by developers with their grid delivering a second round on the south coast. So there's a huge focus on offshore wind, it really offers up a step change for us, for Ireland in achieving those renewable targets of 80% so that's probably what the next year will look like for me anyway, and for my colleagues, keeping in mind

Dusty Rhodes  10:52 
that Ireland is aiming to have 80% of the electricity generated by 2030 there's one point that I always here where it's a clog point in any major project or infrastructure or whatever it is, and it's always the planning system. It's a bottleneck, and it's a bottleneck for renewable energy projects as well as anything else. Is this causing any concern for future proofing the grid?

Louise O'Flanagan  11:18 
I think what the planning system is seeing is there's quite a lot of infrastructure being built at the moment and being going through the planning system. So not just for grid, but, you know, there's lots of other projects that are also being submitted at the moment, as well as housing and growth. So it's quite a considerable amount of economic growth in Ireland at the moment, we're seeing lots of projects being progressed. So I think what EirGrid can try and do to support that is when we bring projects to the consenting stage, is that we've, you know, we've done a lot of our done a lot of work before we even get to that stage, in terms of looking at what the options are in front of us, seeing what is the best option that we have, engaging, as I said, with stakeholders and landowners and communities, so that we have really engaged them, told them about the project, taken on board, their feedback, so that when we do get into the planning system, that we have done a huge amount of work of understanding what is the best project that we can bring forward.

Dusty Rhodes  12:15 
The reason I ask that is because when you feel like you're an ordinary engineer and you're going through this planning system, then you're looking, well, air grid wouldn't have that problem because they're enormous, so it's just kind of nice to hear they use the same problems as the rest of us.

Louise O'Flanagan  12:29 
We would factor it in, I suppose it's factoring in that timeline in. When I'm talking about those delivery timelines, we'd have already considered that it might take about 12 months for us to come through the planning system,

Dusty Rhodes  12:41 
You were telling me before we came on the podcast, and I thought it was a great story, and it was a case study that we were chatting about, and it's all to do with the planning system and talking to people, and this whole thing about a substation in Ireland where where you were going to locate it, and, and you kind of thought, yeah, substation. Who cares? But that wasn't the case. What happened?

Louise O'Flanagan  13:04 
Yeah, it's, it was one, when we were chatting about it, I was, you know, I thought about, it's one of the first projects I took on when I joined air grid. So it's going back maybe about 12 years. This project had quite a remote area of Ireland, the West of Ireland, in terms of infrastructure be built. It was quite modest, you know, a substation. It's all enclosed within a building. You can't actually see much of the electrical infrastructure. And was going to connect into an existing overhead line. So I suppose, from my perspective, I thought it was going to be quite a short project, and quite maybe quickly into delivery. And as always, we engage with our communities when we're going to deliver infrastructure. And it was really interesting actually. Then when we went out and we started talking to kind of local community, we realised actually they had quite a lot of interest in the project. Some of it was concerns, some of it was positive, and some of us actually just wondering about what this meant, and trying to make people bring them on this journey of this is to connect renewable energy. This is what our targets are and what that would mean for their area. And I suppose initially there was, as I said, there was some concerns about this, and it's probably what a lot of engineers might face when they're delivering infrastructure projects. And you engage with the community. First is you need to explain what the need of the project is, but then also listen and take on board that feedback, and what the community asked us was, could we look at some of the other options? And some of the options we had ruled out because they were maybe more technically challenging or had maybe more environmental management for us to contend with. We did get that commitment. We said, we'll go back and look at it. So through, I suppose, a period of maybe 12 months, we looked at other options that were available. Some of them, we still realised, but there was one that we said, look, actually, we might be able to take this further. And we had a look at that. And bearing in mind, there's, you know, wind farms that are waiting to connect into it. So there's still a need to progress the project and keep momentum going. But ultimately, what we were able to do as a project team through engaging with our oncologists. With geotechnical engineers, with electrical engineers, we did come up with another option, and we were able to move the substation further away. And I think overall, when it went into the planning system itself, what I found really interesting was there wasn't a single objection to the project. In fact, I actually, you know, actually got a letter of support from that community for the engagement that we'd had on the project. And what it really taught me was, you know, as an engineer, you can have the most perfect plan on paper, but unless you actually meaningfully engage with your stakeholders and communities, that's maybe where that plan will stay, possibly is on paper. And actually, you know, it's one that I took away, and I've learned a lot from that experience.

Dusty Rhodes  15:40 
Louise, let me ask you a little bit about yourself. How did you get into engineering in the first place? You've got a great passion for it.

Louise O'Flanagan  15:48 
I think that, I think that passion has developed over the last 20 years of being an engineer. It was certainly not something that I had ever considered when I was in secondary school, it was a teacher of mine, and she recommended it to me. She said, You know, you're good at maths. You really like science. I know you'd like a profession and you want to help people. Would you consider engineering? And I said to her, No, I've never considered it. I'll go find out more. And it probably wasn't that I constantly said, I you know, I wouldn't be an engineer, but I just didn't know anybody. I didn't know any previous, past pupils that I'd gone on to study engineering. I didn't know anybody's sister that had gone on the engineering I definitely knew some of my friends' brothers had gone on. And so maybe just on some level, I just hadn't considered it as a career path. And then when I got it, I applied to to a number of different colleges, and I got offered a place in UCD. And even when I got there, I wouldn't say it was a passion for it. You know, it's quite overwhelming when you start in engineering, because there's so many different subjects, it's a really broad area to study. But what I found was, in particular, there was this one project that really stood out for me. It was called biosystems for engineering, and it's quite different. And I know it just clicked it when I said I really like this, and I'd like to study more subjects like this. So I looked at what were my options you have to in second year, pick where you might go next. And I realized that the lecturers for those particular subjects were mostly in civil engineering in RSF, terrorists. So that's how I decided to pursue a career in civil engineering in particular. And even as I went through my studies in civil engineering, I kept going towards those subjects that are in the environment were around water hydrology, water treatment, around infrastructure, and that's what ignited that passion in me. So I really just kind of made sure that I kind of followed my own path through to come out with something that I was really interested in,

Dusty Rhodes  17:39 
And you were just exposing yourself to or you were being exposed to lots of different things, and you just followed what interested you. So what was it then that drew you into the energy space?

Louise O'Flanagan  17:49 
Well, initially I started in the water sector, and I spent nine years working as an engineering consultancy in the UK. In Ireland, I worked in with different local authorities around Ireland. I spent a year in Mayo, and me working on different projects of Wicklow and Waterford. And in about 2011 in 2010 I could see that there was really with the economic downturn, going to be a delay in a lot of those projects moving forward. And I was looking around what next is Ireland's biggest challenge? And that's when I happened to cross what Ireland, what ergrid were doing, and it just, once again, just resonated with me, this idea that engineers could bring about solutions and to be part of that solution that need for new infrastructure, and I had a lot of experience in delivering for the water sector, that I could bring their transferable skills over to the energy sector. And that's where I've stayed now for the last 13 years, and that's where my passion is, that idea that you can leave a very sustainable legacy, a very positive legacy, in what you're doing as an engineer.

Dusty Rhodes  18:50 
You mentioned that when engineering was suggested to you, you didn't know any of your own cohort who had gone for it, but you knew some people's brothers and whatever had gone for it, something that you're very passionate about is women in engineering, in your role at the moment, what is the important thing about the shortage of female engineers in Ireland?

Louise O'Flanagan  19:09 
I think firstly, there is a shortage of engineers in Ireland, and then there is definitely a shortage of female engineers in Ireland. I think this is just six hour that about 23% of engineers coming out of university are female, and that drops significantly to about 12% actually entering into the workforce. So but there's huge programs to try and encourage young girls and women into STEM subjects such as engineering. You know, employers such as EirGrid Take a very positive view of trying to encourage engineers to take to encourage women to take up engineering as a profession. In fact, we have a very active graduate program where you'd see, maybe, you know, 50% of our graduates are female, and to try and support that, but it is certainly a stark figure I'd like to. Think that you know other people might follow maybe a similar path that I have, or see that it can be done. I actually heard someone at a conference recently saying you can't be what you can't see. So if you don't see someone that has gone on to take up a more senior role in an organization or as an engineer, if you're maybe earlier in your career, it might not be such a clear path for you.

Dusty Rhodes  20:23 
Now, a lot of people might be looking at you because you're the first female as the Head of Engineering in EirGrid. What does that mean to you?

Louise O'Flanagan  20:30 
I'd like to think once again, there's a there's an opportunity to be a role model and to show that you can take up a senior level position, a senior leadership position within an organisation that is technical. I don't need to have all the technical experience. I need to make sure that I have technical experts in their field as part of that team, and that will be made up, you know, of people that have different disciplines, and diversity is key to it. It's not like you just want to say it's just gender. It's about really supporting diversity on a team, and that's where that collaboration and that different perspectives is really born out. But certainly, I think being female Head of Engineering and asset management does show that you know, this is something that is achievable. If you want to go down this route and go into a leadership role or go into a management role, but still have a technical aspect to to your to your career. And what

Dusty Rhodes  21:26 
Do you think holds women back from careers in engineering in general?

Louise O'Flanagan  21:29 
I think for maybe, maybe for some girls and women, it's like what I went back to at the start, if there isn't a significant number maybe going forward from your class, or that you don't know a lot of your peers that are going forward, you might not, maybe consider it as an obvious choice. So that's why I think the Steps program is really good. And then you know, when you go then through university, as to where do I go next? And I think that's really good if you're coming out of university, is go which employers are the ones that are actually promoting diversity, that are actually genuine and incredible about offering up diversity in the workplace, and the numbers speak for themselves. And as I said, it is challenging, with only 23% of graduates actually being female to make sure that then that organisation encourages female participation in the workplace. Then there's other stages of life that might become more difficult, with families, et cetera, or people having caring roles, and that can disproportionately affect women. But certainly, I'd like to think that if you've, you know you've if that's something that you want to achieve and you want to go on, then you will find the right balance, and there are good employers out there that will support you in that.

Dusty Rhodes  22:34 
I love how you use the word diversity, because you need people of different backgrounds, different skills, different education, different nationalities, different genders, is just another thing on that list. Like, you know, if you were speaking to a female engineer, and I'm sure you probably do, who's feeling a little stuck in her career, and it's kind of, what advice do you give them?

Louise O'Flanagan  22:58 
I think it's for me, it's by finding that passion, what do you enjoy doing, and then finding a balance to make it work for you, if you have a clearer idea where you want to go, and you can see a path, or maybe there's someone just that little bit ahead of you on that path, and then you can get they turn to them and ask them for advice, ask them for feedback. And also, it's not that men don't have a role to play. I think men are very supportive of encouraging diversity and current aging, encouraging gender diversity, and supporting women to going on further in their careers. And it's about normalizing the fact that in those caring roles, it might also be, you know, a man that has to take on his caring roles. And it's just normalizing it for everyone. I think that's a really positive part of it. But certainly, if, if there was a woman joining my team, and I do have a few, I would certainly say, go for what ignites the past in you. Go follow that. You might have to take a little break here and there as other commitments come up in your life, but just try and find a way back in if that's something that you want to do.

Dusty Rhodes  23:58 
And that's just brilliant advice in in general to anybody, I think is something that I've definitely found to be true in my own life, my own career. I want to get back to EirGrid, because I'm thinking about what you said earlier, about many of the projects that you're working on at the moment, or, sorry, many of the projects which are being worked on at the moment, because you don't generate the electricity. You just get it from A to B. There's a lot of wind, solar sites that are being located. And you've mentioned the west of Ireland a number of times. What plans does air grid have to improve how we're getting power from the west of Ireland to the east coast, where the majority of the population are, or to anywhere else in the country, you know what I mean?

Louise O'Flanagan  24:41 
Yeah, no. So, as I mentioned before, when we looked at what the government targets were initially of 70% and onto the 80% we knew that we needed to create a plan of how we were going to achieve that. And there was a roadmap put in place, which is called shaping our electricity future. As I mentioned previous. And we had a huge amount of engagement with industry, with stakeholders, with communities, with local authorities, to explain what the need was and how, what did they think we could do to achieve that? And part of that is what's called a plan led approach so that synergy between where do we have capacity on the grid and where could we place renewables? Or where do we where should we consider demand? So it's really, once again, using that grid in a smarter way than just saying, Okay, we'll just keep building in the one place and try and build more grid to get it from A to B. Is say, well, actually in location C, we have capacity there. And so why? You know that would be a really clear thing. Let's say, What about considering locating wind farms or solar farms or offshore wind in that location, because that's currently where we have capacity on our grid, and then also signaling that this area actually does need reinforcement. We will need to build grid here to support that. And that will take some time, and this is our timeline to do it. It's also about looking at the technologies that I mentioned previously and deploying them throughout different parts of the grid to try and make it work differently. So it's looking at the grid is one thing. It's not separate grids. It's one grid for the whole island, so to see how that operates all together. And so a huge amount of growth on the East Coast, and as you mentioned, we have renewables on the west coast, but what I see as a major step change is offshore wind, because that's now located on the east coast. And you know, there's, you know, maybe three to four gigawatts of offshore wind being planned at the moment for the east coast of Ireland, and that's right off the coast of Dublin. So I think that really is a big change of where we can see generation, renewable generation right on our doorstep. For those that live in Dublin, it's not going to mean that we don't need the other onshore wind that's going to be built in other locations, or the solar energy that's going to be built maybe in the south or other areas, such as the South Coast, for offshore which we need it all. But it's around that. How do we plan it out better in that systematic way?

Dusty Rhodes  27:01 
And it's a very doable thing, because you only have to go on your holidays and realize how big other countries are. And then you come back to our little rock just on the precipice of the Atlantic, and you kind of go, if I drive for more than three hours, I'm going to drown. So it's going to be, it sounds like a huge project. Go West Coast to East Coast, but when you think about it anyways, that's that's a whole other thing. Listen. Louise, I wanted to ask you about, like a lot of engineers, listen to the podcast, who are working in very various engineering firms around the country. You have their ear at the moment. What would you like to say to them in relation to their work and air grid and connecting with air grid, or planning to work with air grid, and what's coming in the next few years?

Louise O'Flanagan  27:50 
Well, I think probably what I've outlined to you just, you could probably imagine there's, there's quite a considerable amount of work in transforming air grids, power system, you know, for generations to come. And this isn't going to be something that's delivered tomorrow or the year after, so we need a huge number of professionals to join us in that challenge. So it could be engineers, ecologists, planners. So, you know, I think if anybody was listening and they wanted to be part of that story, that they're interested in that journey that we're going on look, that are interested in the like sustainability and leaving a very positive legacy. And actually, you know, I talk to people from around the world, and it's really interesting, the number of people that I talk to, of engineers, are saying, I want to make a positive difference, particularly around climate change, and they see this as one of the biggest global threats that we have. And they look at Ireland, they look at air grid, and they tell me, what you're doing there is so transformational that it's so different, that they want to come and join us and be part of that. So maybe that's what I would say. If anybody is listening and they think that's something that they'd like to contribute to or be part of that, I'd maybe suggest even check out our website. We've lots of lots of roles there that might be of interest. But even just to find out more about what we're doing and reach out, even if you're in a community that maybe sees one of our projects coming nearby, are there any particular qualities of skills that you're looking for. At the moment, we're certainly looking for lots of different skills, and it's not even just engineering, but certainly electrical engineering, mechanical, civil process, environmental. You know, I think engineers certainly have a way of thinking and problem solving that lends itself to what we're trying to do. So it's not just one type of engineering, one discipline, but also, as I mentioned, there's other professionals that we need, and then obviously there's other supporting professions that we have. You know, we've solicitors working for us. We have people that work in finance. Our IT sector is massive, and even when you look at where the grid of the future might go, you know, technology plays a massive part of that, of it and AI, so there's, there's plenty of opportunity there. It's not one profession that's ever going to deliver this on its own. You know, it's, it's going to be a whole diverse range of skills that we need.

Dusty Rhodes  29:50 
Looking back on your career, was there any particular incident or story where you learned, like, a big life lesson and just kind of. Wow, and it's stood to your benefit since,

Louise O'Flanagan  30:03 
That's a really good question. Dusty, I think, look, I think in my experience, over the last, you know, as I said, the last 30 years, particularly in project management, what I've learned is about planning for, you know, risks that are unplannable. It's, it's like, you can have a really good schedule, you know, you're going to deliver a project by x date, and then suddenly something comes out of the blue and it throws those plans into disarray. And I think what I've learned over time is just, you know, it's, it's planning for those maybe foreseeable risks, and then having that contingency for the unforeseeable, the unknown. And I think, you know, engineers and project managers tend to be more optimistic and are outlook. If we were pessimistic, we probably wouldn't try and do anything. So you tend to probably err on the side of optimism, and you need to get and that's part of the leadership, although project management is one part. But leadership is getting people to buy into what you want to deliver, and to want to help you and assist you in that. And you know, it's not that you're lying, is that you actually want to drive that on yourself and bring people along. So I think it's about what I've learned is probably having a certain amount of contingency and a plan B if you don't end up doing what Plan A was and being able to keep that momentum going without mentioning any names or places or years.

Dusty Rhodes  31:24 
What happened with that?

Louise O'Flanagan  31:30 

You learned that lesson, and I think it probably even goes back to that, that previous example that I gave you, because I would have thought that I would have gone in maybe with the with the exact plan that I had on paper in a very short period of time and come out with the decision from onboard canola in next many months. I probably would have, even at that stage, probably factored in even a more prolonged planning decision. You know, maybe would have gone to oral hearing. But actually, by doing it the other way around, by spending the time in that development phase prior to going for planning that took a lot longer, that took a year extra onto that project. Was just quite a long time. But actually, on the other side, it saved a huge amount of time because it gave certainty, and that was the point. We came out the other side with a decision that had no conditions, and it was able to go forward. So I think for me, it's about putting a lot of effort into the planning stage and leaving room for that contingency. So that's a project that I was thinking of in particular where, you know, it may set you back in one way, but you actually end up making the time up and giving that greater certainty for things to move forward.

Dusty Rhodes  32:39 
It's been absolutely fascinating and inspiring chatting with you Louise. If you'd like to find out more about Louise and some of the topics that we did speak about today, you'll find notes and link details in the description area of this podcast. But for now, Louise O'Flanagan, Head of Engineering and Asset management at EirGrid, thank you so much for joining us.

Louise O'Flanagan  32:55 
Thank you very much. Dusty.

Dusty Rhodes  32:58 
If you enjoyed our podcast today, please do share it with a friend in the business. Just tell them to search for Engineers Ireland in their podcast player. The podcast is produced by dustpod.io for Engineers Ireland. For advance episodes, more information on engineering across Ireland or career development opportunities, there are libraries of information on the website at engineersireland.ie.

Until next time for myself Dusty Rhodes, thank you so much for listening. Take care.